Uh.. the Roman/Byzantine architectural style is incredibly prevalent in the films' depiction of Gondor.
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I does not come from the films. I don't see any roman/greek-like building in the movies.
I had always taken the quote to be in terms of idealism rather than architecture. Gondorian land seemed to resemble that of the North Med more than the South so the resources etc would be different.Lore-wise, that's not exactly true - saying that Gondor definitively should resemble Rome or Greece is a misconception from the films. Letter 211:
"The Númenóreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar, and archaic, and I think are best pictured in (say) Egyptian terms. In many ways they resembled ‘Egyptians’ – the love of, and power to construct, the gigantic and massive. And in their great interest in ancestry and in tombs. (But not of course in ‘theology’ : in which respect they were Hebraic and even more puritan…) I think the crown of Gondor (the S. Kingdom) was very tall, like that of Egypt, but with wings attached, not set straight back but at an angle. The N. Kingdom had only a diadem the difference between the N. and S. kingdoms of Egypt."
Firstly, yes, making it triangular wont make it a generic coastal city.Making it triangular wont make it a generic coastal city? I is turning into a debate of taste neither side is right or wrong. I do not like a triangular port city. This aint Riverrun(GoT fans yay). Some rpg project made a triangular design and now you guys who usually fight for lore and don't care about looks defend an layout that in my eyes is not only impractical but also not pleasing for the eye. You can use arguments like this aint Egypt and such but Mediterranean city's used sandstone just as their eastern counter parts did. If this truly is a battle about taste I wont win this but neither will you. You either like it or you don't. Time will tell what will happen when we finish this version maybe you will like it and I wont or we all like it or no one does etc.. Luckily for you nothing ever last more then 3 years on this server before it gets either revamped or redone.
I could say this is insulting the current effort we put into planning Pelargir by calling it generic.Firstly, yes, making it triangular wont make it a generic coastal city.
I should have worded that different I'm sorry about that. What I mean was you usually care more about lore and are willing to sacrifice good looks. So I find it strange for you to be on the good look side. Which is not really on topic but just a random thought I decided to write.Also, it's quite insulting that you would suggest the real lore fans on the server don't care about appearance, we had a problem with people sacrificing lore accuracy to either "make it pretty" or make it fit with the films.
I'm putting allot of effort in it to make it look as good as I can create it. And I have a very strong idea that I can create it better in the way that we are planning Pelargir right now then if we would have done a triangular shape. I think the community wants to see awesome stuff some think non triangular stuff is awesome others think triangular stuff is awesome. I can probably deliver non triangular Pelargir awesome because i like it. But I wont be able to deliver triangular Pelargir awesome because I don't like it. I put my heart into the stuff I build and i cant do that if i'm building something i do not 100% stand behind. I do hope you respect that.After all, it's not for me, it's not for you, it's for the community, so why not build what the community wants to see?
Yep, I'm sure that if the entire city had been designed before being built, the homes would have been farther back from the walls. However, medieval people didn't have the convenience of modern city-planners.Well I can' t answer the cartoonish vs. roman architecture as I don't want to do any work to look things upBut I can answer the why are things so close to the wall. People built cities and then those cities would expand. Within the city walls things were a lot safer than outside so as many people as possible were crammed into this area. As a result people would try to fit as many houses into the area as possible, and no space would be left unused. People would build right up to the walls all the time. (based on my experience in 'medieval/renaissance' cities in Italy, France, and the Netherlands)
Also the walls were mainly based to stop people from walking into the city, not so much from stopping big rocks from being hurled into the houses behind them.
I don't really see your point, unless you are merely commenting that the amount of crenellations makes our walls look unrealistic. The designs on our walls are based on real things and (mostly) seem practical; the links you provided do not look incredibly different from anything in gondor.Why are we going with the cartoon castles style for walls rather than the styles that Rome actually used? I'm sorry, but these simply look nonsensical, and honestly, quite weak.
So, I've got a question - and this may come off as insulting, I don't know.
Why are we going with the cartoon castles style for walls rather than the styles that Rome actually used? I'm sorry, but these simply look nonsensical, and honestly, quite weak. Also, I must ask (and this is based only one what I've seen, which isn't a whole lot), why are the rooves of houses taller than the walls intended to defend them, and why are they so close to the walls at all? If there was a siege, those walls would prove completely useless, as anything going over them would directly come into contact with the civilian populace.
Again, sorry if this comes off as insulting to all the work you guys are doing, but I needed to ask.
watIt would even be advantageous to build taller houses next to the walls. Archers could stand on top of the houses, a little way back from the fighting on the walls. You'd also be able to have a lot more archers this way.
Whatever, it's not important because the houses in Pelargir aren't that tall anyway.
As a result people would try to fit as many houses into the area as possible, and no space would be left unused. People would build right up to the walls all the time. (based on my experience in 'medieval/renaissance' cities in Italy, France, and the Netherlands)
Tolkein never stated that Pelargir is a huge triangle.....all he said was that it was inspired by Venice. Also, in Gondor at least, there was a HUGE army. I don't think it would've been that hard to defend the walls, large that they are. The only reason that the walls would've been cumbersome is when Gondor's army started to dwindle, leading up to the war of the ring. The walls were designed thousands if years before that, when the army was a much larger size.See, I understand what you're saying here, but I disagree with it's implementation. If the houses on the border are indeed those style houses (which they should be), they'd certainly not be large gabled houses, coz those aren't area friendly. They'd be square or rectangular, and likely be little more than five meters in height. They'd have a bedroom, a kitchen, and that'd probably be it. Houses the size of those in Pelargir would be expensive to make and expensive to maintain and repair.
And while I understand that the walls aren't entirely military based - they would be. This is Pelargir, one of the major cities of Gondor. Pelargir especially was a major port of conflict, and it'd be extremely well defended, otherwise the Corsairs would've claimed it and held onto it long ago.
Did you happen to measure that from the thickest point on your walls, or from the random holes and indentations that litter their faces? Walls should not be made to look pretty, they should be simple surfaces. Adding all those things, especially in the world of Middle Earth, would actually aid any enemies trying to climb over them, like Orcs or worse.
I know that they all serve purposes - I'm not saying they as concept are silly, I'm saying how they've been made in this particular job (well, the entire server bar Minas Tirith in my opinion, but that's another debate) look silly. They've over exaggerated and so large that it'd be quite difficult to actually defend the walls. Part of this is of course the limitations of Minecraft, I'll admit.
As for 'they weren't such great planners back in the day', that's simply false. Minas Tirith was a freaking mountain backed, multi-tiered city. Pelragir is a TRIANGLE. These are planned very specifically and with immense work behind them, and let's not even discuss the influence Mannish constructs had from the likes of Elves, whose structures were immensely planned out.
Someones never stood on a shingled roof before. They're not known for their supportive ability - they're not made for it.
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