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Moria - Stage 2: Idea collecting and fine planning
- Thread starter Finrod_Amandil
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Antimattergizmo
Another Moria Worker
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At first it was like...
But then it was like...
Life, uh, Finds a way...
Portalrules333
One Of Us, One of Us
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True, but everything in Middle-Earth is unrealistic, no?the problem with making it 1 wide, it will look unrealistic and weird, trust me i did the best i could
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No, many things are realistic, like realistic laws of physics and many other fundamental things. Fantasy is changing just enough to make it be fantastic, if you change too much its not credible anymore. And that's why it's okay when we compare southern gondor with mediterranean countries, and the Misty Mountains with real ones.
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hmhmm guess you canCould I get a copy of the bridge in the plotworld
./warp Bridge on plotworld; only Bombur is allowed to fiddle around with it
I think it came up once before, but the thing with Minecraft's default FOV/rendering/whatever is that objects tend to look smaller than their actual defined size. For instance, a meter-width door in your house is plenty wide, but in Minecraft it feels like you're scraping your elbows walking through it. Likewise, most normal rooms don't have four-meter-high ceilings, yet I find a three-block-high ceiling to be rather claustrophobic personally. I think it's much more important to get the correct feel of an area's scale, instead of going 1:1 with block placement.
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We just let it die down so far that there will be a new hype wave when actually community gets involved. Hype is pretty low right now............
Puffin4Tom
Is going on an adventure!
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I hope it's not too late for suggestions, but I thought I would share these ideas with you all. Please tell me what you think!
One of the things that I found unrealistic after exploring Old Moria was: where did all the food for the dwarrows (dwarves) come from? Sure some would have been imported through the West Gate, but there were hundreds of years before they built that and it would also be hugely impractical to ship it all so far. There are no major settlements near the East Gate to import food from, and no Dwarven farming/ agricultural settlements aboveground nearby. With this in mind, I present the Dwarven Sustenance Production plan:
Since Moria is underground, mushrooms, moss and lichens immediately spring to mind as the most suitable plant to be cultivated. These all require lower light levels than traditional crops like potatoes, wheat or carrots. However, they cannot grow in pitch-black conditions, so would require some light.
It's said in the books that in some of the halls (e.g Chamber of Mazarbul) there are light shafts coming down from the peaks of the Misties and into the halls. If there were farming caverns in Moria, it stands to reason that these would have similar light shafts. Since these would probably be quite narrow, traditional "field" style farming would not be used, instead food would be grown around edges of caverns, maybe hanging on arches or something similar.
Of course, the next most important thing for growing plants is water. In mines, water seeps down to the bottom chambers and can be collected from there through wells and pump shafts. (Moria wells are mentioned in the books, when the Fellowship are inside the guardhouse by the place where the path splits.) It could be presumed then that water for crops would be provided with a similar system: Pumps bringing water to the top caverns/ halls, and it being used to irrigate the plants.
Imurgr album of a quick concept I made on Freebuild: (Stained glass is water!)
Food processing: While some things could probably be eaten raw, the most likely use for lichens and suchlike would be making flour-like substances for dwarven bread. Mills and bakeries could thus be built, addling lots of interesting detail.
Milk and Dairy: As I believe @TSGroot has expressed a great desire for a cheese dairy, some way of producing milk for this might have to be imagined. Perhaps herds of goats could have been kept in a light-shaft-lit cavern and fed on lichen? I don't know much about livestock farming, but this could be a nice feature and could maybe allow slaughterhouses and butchers in Moria as well.
Anyway, I hope you managed to get through my rambling, un-edited post and I hope I have a few good ideas for you all.
Puffin
One of the things that I found unrealistic after exploring Old Moria was: where did all the food for the dwarrows (dwarves) come from? Sure some would have been imported through the West Gate, but there were hundreds of years before they built that and it would also be hugely impractical to ship it all so far. There are no major settlements near the East Gate to import food from, and no Dwarven farming/ agricultural settlements aboveground nearby. With this in mind, I present the Dwarven Sustenance Production plan:
Since Moria is underground, mushrooms, moss and lichens immediately spring to mind as the most suitable plant to be cultivated. These all require lower light levels than traditional crops like potatoes, wheat or carrots. However, they cannot grow in pitch-black conditions, so would require some light.
It's said in the books that in some of the halls (e.g Chamber of Mazarbul) there are light shafts coming down from the peaks of the Misties and into the halls. If there were farming caverns in Moria, it stands to reason that these would have similar light shafts. Since these would probably be quite narrow, traditional "field" style farming would not be used, instead food would be grown around edges of caverns, maybe hanging on arches or something similar.
Of course, the next most important thing for growing plants is water. In mines, water seeps down to the bottom chambers and can be collected from there through wells and pump shafts. (Moria wells are mentioned in the books, when the Fellowship are inside the guardhouse by the place where the path splits.) It could be presumed then that water for crops would be provided with a similar system: Pumps bringing water to the top caverns/ halls, and it being used to irrigate the plants.
Imurgr album of a quick concept I made on Freebuild: (Stained glass is water!)
Food processing: While some things could probably be eaten raw, the most likely use for lichens and suchlike would be making flour-like substances for dwarven bread. Mills and bakeries could thus be built, addling lots of interesting detail.
Milk and Dairy: As I believe @TSGroot has expressed a great desire for a cheese dairy, some way of producing milk for this might have to be imagined. Perhaps herds of goats could have been kept in a light-shaft-lit cavern and fed on lichen? I don't know much about livestock farming, but this could be a nice feature and could maybe allow slaughterhouses and butchers in Moria as well.
Anyway, I hope you managed to get through my rambling, un-edited post and I hope I have a few good ideas for you all.
Puffin
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!
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Awesome that you see such fundamental things and provide concepts for them!
Despot and I have not talked too much about it, but we have planned several big crop fields that produce Moria's food, and they are supposed to be fairly "classic" types of crops, especially wheat though. The main problem of course is the sun light which plants need to make photosynthesis (artificial light wont work).
A light shaft without further additions does not provide a viable solution for two reasons: Only when the sun is exactly straight above the shaft light actually gets down to the cave (which at the position on the planet where Moria is, is exactly never the case, cause it is most likely north of the Tropic of Cancer (geographic latitude > 23°26′14.2″N.).
Secondly once the light is in the cave you only get a very small spot of light which provides enough area to provide enough food to make your chicken survive.
I made a quick sketch on how to solve that:
Im no pro in terms of optics, but the plano-concave lens should do the trick:
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@Puffin4Tom
- I like the concept of having farms and livestock; it's very practical and realistic which are things I love in MCME.
- I refrain from passing judgement on your specific ideas (I'm not sure about them but don't have a better suggestion right now).
- I remind you that even if we do have fields of some sort there won't be plants.
- Unless…hey, orcs need food too right? Perhaps some of the industry things, not just food production and processing but also workshops and stuff, can be taken over and used by orcs?
SKy_the_Thunder
Yellow Flower Puncher
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The math on that isn't easy. And making the lenses would be even harder. Something like that still isn't easy with our modern industrial capacity.
Another way would be to give the shaft mirrored walls. Then all light falling into it would be reflected downwards.
At the bottom you still might want to have something lense-like. Since accuracy isn't really that important down here , a simple (but still big) glass orb does the job. Having it suspended below the light shaft by chains would look impressive too...
This way the shafts also aren't closed off and can double for ventilation.