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Finished Pelargir Dome Contest

Genexos said:
could the ones that didn't win also get some feedback? because i would really like to know what was wrong with my build (plot 12) ?
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The exterior of your build was very good. However, the interior was a little odd. While the design with the tree is very creative, it doesn't really fit with the purpose of the dome, which is a place to worship the Valar. The balconies on the 1 1/2 floor are odd too, because you have to climb up one set of stairs and down another to get to them. The dark, 1 block wide staircases don't really instill a feeling of greatness either.
 
also, there are a few staircases/pathways that dead end, and large amounts of stone being supported by wood, such as the staircases. Diddn't like the pure cobblestone wall pillars much either. Outside, overall one of the bests. <3
 
DSESGH said:
The exterior of your build was very good. However, the interior was a little odd. While the design with the tree is very creative, it doesn't really fit with the purpose of the dome, which is a place to worship the Valar. The balconies on the 1 1/2 floor are odd too, because you have to climb up one set of stairs and down another to get to them. The dark, 1 block wide staircases don't really instill a feeling of greatness either.
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I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere in lore that Men worshiped the Valar (but I guess i don't remember anywhere it specifically said they didn't). Just wondering if there was any background to verify this, because the sense i always had from the simlarillion was that the valar weren't worshiped as gods, as much as they were simply mythological figures (like pagan gods to us) to men by the third age.
 
Glovr said:
I don't remember it being mentioned anywhere in lore that Men worshiped the Valar (but I guess i don't remember anywhere it specifically said they didn't). Just wondering if there was any background to verify this, because the sense i always had from the simlarillion was that the valar weren't worshiped as gods, as much as they were simply mythological figures (like pagan gods to us) to men by the third age.
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The Numenorean Faithful were the ones who kept with the will of the Valar. Perhaps they didn't directly worship them, but I'm not sure why they'd build a huge dome if they were just acknowledging the presence of the Valar;) However, I don't think all Men worhsipped/followed the Valar.
 
DSESGH said:
The Numenorean Faithful were the ones who kept with the will of the Valar. Perhaps they didn't directly worship them, but I'm not sure why they'd build a huge dome if they were just acknowledging the presence of the Valar;) However, I don't think all Men worhsipped/followed the Valar.
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Well thats just the thing. The faithful were the ones who followed Elendil to middle earth while Ar-Pharazon was invading Valinor. Because at the time, the Valar, and Valinor were still part of that physical world.
My point in that i guess, is that they weren't gods to worship because they were part of the world. And it actually seems silly that Men would have even a shrine to them afterwards, as they basically deserted them.
But again, this is all speculation by me. I don't know if any of the loremasters would have any clarification.
 
It's impossible for mankind to live without a faith. faith is the thing man turns towards when times are dark hoping something/someone will help them. without it mankind would go insane due to despair. that little bit of hope keeps them going. and in middle earth times are always dark. so it makes sense for them to a least worship something, and why not the creators of the world itself the Valar! faith came about because mankind feared all things unknown and believed spirits inhabited everything. (which in middle earth they do) so to me it wouldn't make sense if they didn't worship or at least acknowledge the valar. (btw I'm atheist but iI acknowledge why people need religion)
 
I'd say men (and elves) were supposed to honor the valar as their elders, and also the masters of the world.
So the dome is sorta to recognize and honor them, and maybe a place to ask a couple favors?
 
That's indeed a good question, here my two cents:

In 2510 T.A. Rohan was founded upon the Halifirien, where the tomb of Elendil the Faithful lied; An oath was spoken, first by Eorl in Rohirric, then by the ruling steward Cirion in Quenya and Common Speech: "Vanda sina termaruva Elenna-nóreo alcar enyalien ar Elendil Vorondo voronwë. Nai tiruvantes i hárar mahalmassen mi Númen ar i Eru i or ilyë mahalmar eä tenn' oio" - "This oath shall stand in memory of the glory of the Land of the Star*, and of the faith of Elendil the Faithful, in the keeping of those who sit upon the thrones of the West** and of the One*** who is above all thrones forever."
* Númenor
** The Valar
*** Eru Ilúvatar

This was about 500 years before our time, but now we need to have a look at the dates related to Pelargir: Pelargir was founded in 2350 of the Second Age, that's even 970 years before Gondor was founded and 3601 years before Rohan was founded. Furthermore Pelargir was the place where the Faithful landed after the Valar did obliterate Númenor. It thus seems very likely that a group of men that only still live because they were loyal to these gods do build some kind of shrine or similar to continue praising them.

The question then is whether that building was maintained over the more than 4000 years time between Pelargirs foundation and the war of the ring. On one hand as we see, the Valar were neither forgotten nor have been replaced by something else to mainly believe on, by referring to Cirions and Eorls oath above. On the other hand it seems strange that a figure like Gandalf that was specially sent by the Valar to help the men doesn't get more respect from Denethor or others (it may be though that they simply didnt know where the Istari came from, but this seems somewhat weird, that you actively go helping someone but you dont tell them your intentions)

But overall I would say, the house of the Faithful is something one could very well still find in Pelargir.
 
I think it makes sense if viewed as a place of honor, and perhaps a memorial to what was (both Numenor and the presence of the Undying Lands within the circles of the world), instead of a place of active worship like we'd think of a church today. To the best of my lore-knowledge, there wasn't much in Middle-earth comparable to the organized religious worship of our world: the Faithful/Dunedain acknowledged the Valar as the Lords of the West, and the Dwarves had a particular reverence for Aule, but there wasn't any sort of real organized ceremony to it. Even in Numenor at its height, there was no actual temple building, only the open space on top of the Meneltarma.
 
Finrod_Amandil said:
That's indeed a good question, here my two cents:

In 2510 T.A. Rohan was founded upon the Halifirien, where the tomb of Elendil the Faithful lied; An oath was spoken, first by Eorl in Rohirric, then by the ruling steward Cirion in Quenya and Common Speech: "Vanda sina termaruva Elenna-nóreo alcar enyalien ar Elendil Vorondo voronwë. Nai tiruvantes i hárar mahalmassen mi Númen ar i Eru i or ilyë mahalmar eä tenn' oio" - "This oath shall stand in memory of the glory of the Land of the Star*, and of the faith of Elendil the Faithful, in the keeping of those who sit upon the thrones of the West** and of the One*** who is above all thrones forever."
* Númenor
** The Valar
*** Eru Ilúvatar

This was about 500 years before our time, but now we need to have a look at the dates related to Pelargir: Pelargir was founded in 2350 of the Second Age, that's even 970 years before Gondor was founded and 3601 years before Rohan was founded. Furthermore Pelargir was the place where the Faithful landed after the Valar did obliterate Númenor. It thus seems very likely that a group of men that only still live because they were loyal to these gods do build some kind of shrine or similar to continue praising them.

The question then is whether that building was maintained over the more than 4000 years time between Pelargirs foundation and the war of the ring. On one hand as we see, the Valar were neither forgotten nor have been replaced by something else to mainly believe on, by referring to Cirions and Eorls oath above. On the other hand it seems strange that a figure like Gandalf that was specially sent by the Valar to help the men doesn't get more respect from Denethor or others (it may be though that they simply didnt know where the Istari came from, but this seems somewhat weird, that you actively go helping someone but you dont tell them your intentions)

But overall I would say, the house of the Faithful is something one could very well still find in Pelargir.
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And this is the rencarnation of Tolkin, all hail Fin and his lore knowlege
 
Top_Gun said:
I think it makes sense if viewed as a place of honor, and perhaps a memorial to what was (both Numenor and the presence of the Undying Lands within the circles of the world), instead of a place of active worship like we'd think of a church today. To the best of my lore-knowledge, there wasn't much in Middle-earth comparable to the organized religious worship of our world: the Faithful/Dunedain acknowledged the Valar as the Lords of the West, and the Dwarves had a particular reverence for Aule, but there wasn't any sort of real organized ceremony to it. Even in Numenor at its height, there was no actual temple building, only the open space on top of the Meneltarma.
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So basically more like a museum than a actual place of worship, in other words.
 
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