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Designer Kick Perms

Wyattrox03

Designer
Staff member
Designer
Supporter
I believe designers should have kick perms.
We had it before and now we don't.
This could be useful for dealing with late night trouble makers and making guide sacrafices during artist promotions.
Also we have it on discord but not in game?
Also Darki,Tyren, and Ober are no longer designers so what is the harm.
That's all,
Thank you.

#futureofmcme
 
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Designers are very important members of staff and the ability to kick is something that they should get! I also agree with BeastBearcat, the trolls in chat that are free to be there because no mods are online is horrible! Luckily we have people like Wyattrox03 who would use the ability to /kick people to better the server in an instance like that, therefore I believe that designers should get that ability and if they had it in the past it shows that it is a reasonable idea, thank you.

#futureofmcme
 
We had Ober, Darki and Tyren.
But now we have You and Daom.
 
Is it a matter of who's job it is or who is online and in the best position to do something about it.
Like who is a more trusted member of the community than a designer like what
 
Wyattrox03 said:
Is it a matter of who's job it is or who is online and in the best position to do something about it.
Like who is a more trusted member of the community than a designer like what
Click to expand...
Wyatt i want you to think about what the point of a moderator application is for a while. If you can't figure it out then that is probably why this suggestion is neither funny nor good.
 
Human100 said:
Wyatt i want you to think about what the point of a moderator application is for a while. If you can't figure it out then that is probably why this suggestion is neither funny nor good.
Click to expand...
What's the point of a guide app if you can get the mg badge? Just like guides still have tours and pvp, mods still have mute and ban
 
While Wyatt has experienced this more than anyone else on MCME, being kicked serves absolutely no purpose as a single moderation action except to get someone's attention. Kick on its own does not prevent anyone from doing anything against the rules.

 
This is incorrect. Kicks serve is a warning to those who are disrupting the peaceful and serene environment that the server strives to maintain. Many of these troublemakers attempt to test the waters as a means of locating the barrier at which their behavior becomes unacceptable, and they are often ignorant of the fact that there will be consequences for their actions. Additionally, would you not see it prudent that someone who is damaging the server's indispensable tranquility be removed from the premises, albeit temporarily, before a moderator can further deal with their obstreperous exertions? The Staff of MCME are thoroughly trusted members of the community, who have proven themselves through years of diligence. However, they are not provided with this relatively feeble moderatory ability. I encourage you to rethink your position on this issue and take the necessary steps forward to ensure a positive environment in Minecraft Middle Earth.

#futureofmcme
 
Moderating should really be left for the moderators, as Bart says kicking does little and anyone committed will break the rules anyway. If you have someone online who is causing a nuisance, you can use the /report command. We have moderators covering the American time zones so I really don't see a need for Designers to have these permissions.
 
I dont want moderator perms being slowly brought over to Designer, that essentially makes us mod-lite (Theres a reason why I didnt want moderator perms)
 
I am aware of the /report command. This post isnt made in ignorance of the report system, just that designers initially had kick perms which were removed after a few bad apples which are now gone.
 
Wyattrox03 said:
I am aware of the /report command. This post isnt made in ignorance of the report system, just that designers initially had kick perms which were removed after a few bad apples which are now gone.
Click to expand...
We have three apple trees on our lawn. I can assure you, bad apples is a yearly occurance.
 
I don't see the problem with Staff Members being able to kick someone in the absence of a Moderator, and I don't think the Staff having that permission somehow invalidates or replaces Moderators. These are people who are trusted with the direction and future of the server, I think they can be trusted to kick an obvious troublemaker. I understand certain Staff have abused that permission in the past, but I think if a Staff Member is abusing a permission to the point of considering that permission's removal, the problem isn't the permission. Even though a kick is unlikely to deter a more serious offender, it's still a useful tool to keep them off the server as much as possible until a Moderator can join and remove them properly.
 
Hi Wyattrox03,

Thanks for reaching out. I understand the request to grant kick permissions to designers on MCME. However, there are a few points we need to consider before making such a change:

1. Security and Trust: Granting kick permissions is a significant responsibility. We need to ensure that those who have this power use it judiciously and in accordance with our community guidelines. While designers play a crucial role, not all may be familiar with or fully understand the disciplinary protocols.

2. Hierarchy and Roles: Typically, kick permissions are reserved for moderators and administrators who are specifically trained to handle conflicts and enforce rules. Allowing designers to kick users could blur these role distinctions and lead to potential misuse or misunderstandings.

3. Conflict Resolution: It's essential to maintain a clear and structured approach to conflict resolution. Designers can always report issues to moderators or admins, who can then take appropriate action. This ensures that all incidents are handled consistently and fairly.

4. Focus on Creativity: Designers should ideally focus on their creative work without the added responsibility of managing user behavior. This division of duties helps maintain a productive and harmonious community environment.

Instead of granting kick permissions directly, we could consider the following alternatives:
- Enhanced Communication Channels: Create a dedicated channel or protocol for designers to quickly report issues to moderators.
- Training Sessions: Offer optional training sessions for designers on how to handle common issues and when to escalate them.
- Feedback Mechanism: Establish a feedback loop where designers can share their experiences and suggest improvements to the moderation process.

Your input is valuable, and we want to ensure that designers feel supported and heard. Let's discuss these alternatives further and find the best solution that balances creative freedom with community safety.

Best regards,

Credoo
Head Moderator
MCME Team
 
Yo Credoo,

So I see I have reached the final boss.
I do have a few more things to say about the subject although this suggestion is already probably pretty cooked.

Rebuttal:
1. I think it's fair to say that designers and staff in general are pretty trusted members of the community, as shen said above. As such it probably wouldn't take much to bring them up to speed on when to kick and when not to kick, which plays pretty well into your alternative of training sessions.

2. Many servers are set up so that staff are the moderation of the server, so I don't think it would be that shocking a development for kick perms alone. As our server is not one of those servers though, I think its worth mentioning that kick perms were initially part of the designer "package" until it was removed by a few trigger happy designers. These designers are however gone, and designers having only kick perms shouldn't blur the line any more than commoners with minigame badge blur the line between commoner and guide.

3. Ok, I admit this is fair. I could see how designers might be inserted with kick perms as a way of delaying any bad actor until the actual cavalry can get online. But I can also totally see how one can say no to that.

4. I wasn't really expecting this point, few things to say about it though: I can guarantee, most designers spend as much time jumping around as they do building. I also don't see how this would affect creativity as mars is the most productive builder we have and bart is the head builder and both have moderation in the back of their minds. In any case kick perms alone would be even less to worry about than a full moderation package.

As far as the proposed alternatives:

I am rather happy that you suggested these, I have a few thoughts about them too.

Enhanched Comm Channels: I don't really see the need for additional channels, considering most designers probably have a moderator in their top ten dms. It could be interesting to let staff view moderation channels, seeing how we can see any other team channels, not sure how that would help the present issue but it could be interesting.

Training Sessions: YES YES YES YES YES YES

Feedback Mechanism: Forums work pretty well no?

Before I get any more comments of "just ping a moderator it is literally their job" I should say that this post wasn't made because of a perceived failure of mods, I haven't seen that many problems that haven't been handled, moreso from seeing that the designer rank has 'matured?' from the point when the perms were removed and I am exploring the public and moderator reaction to the restoration of those privileges
 
Hi Wyat,

Thank you for your thoughtful rebuttal and for continuing this discussion. After careful consideration and deliberation, we have decided not to proceed with granting kick permissions to designers. Here are the key reasons for this decision:

  1. Effectiveness Against Trolls: While the ability to kick may seem like a quick solution, it often does not deter determined trolls. Trolls can easily rejoin, and dealing with such situations effectively often requires a more comprehensive approach that includes timing-out, muting, banning and IP blocking, which are beyond the scope of kick permissions.
  2. Current System Efficiency: Our current system, where designers and or staff report issues to moderators, has been functioning well. We have not seen substantial evidence suggesting that this system is inadequate or in need of significant change. The prompt response from moderators to reported issues has generally been effective in maintaining a positive environment.
  3. Potential for Abuse: Granting kick permissions increases the risk of misuse, even with trusted members. Past experiences have shown that the potential for abuse exists, and we want to avoid repeating those issues. Ensuring a clear and abuse-resistant moderation process remains a priority.
  4. Role Clarity and Focus: Maintaining clear role distinctions helps in managing responsibilities and expectations. Designers excel in their creative roles, and adding moderation duties could blur these lines and potentially distract from their primary tasks.
To address the alternatives:

  • Enhanced Communication Channels: We will ensure that designers have easy and direct access to moderators. Enhancing communication and transparency within existing channels remains a priority. We can look in to making the report channel available to staff.
  • Training Sessions: If there is a need to implement a training sessions to better equip designers with the knowledge to handle issues effectively and understand when to escalate them then it will happen.
  • Feedback Mechanism: Continuing to use forums for feedback has been effective. We will also introduce questions in the survey and check-ins to ensure ongoing communication and address any concerns promptly.
This decision is not about a lack of trust or capability but about maintaining a balanced and effective system. We highly value the contributions of the designer team and are committed to supporting you within the current structure.

Thank you for your understanding and for your ongoing dedication to MCME.

Best regards,

Credoo
 
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