• Welcome to MCME!

    Minecraft Middle Earth is a Minecraft community that recreates the world described by JRR Tolkien and his writings. Everyone can participate in organized events in which we collaborate to create major landmarks, terrain, caves, castles, towns, farms and more.

    To get started, visit The New Player Guide

    Joining the server

    Joining the server can be done straight away, but you will have to pass the New Player Quiz. Use the The New Player Guide to get acquainted with our community.

    IP: build.mcmiddleearth.com

Community Project Vote

Stoog_Gaming

Guide
Guide
Supporter
In the last 3 years since I joined this server, 5 projects have been completed, of those 5 projects, only 2 are new locations the other 3 being Revamps.
And of the current active projects all but one of them is a Revamp.

My Solution

I would like to propose a new system for when projects are completed, where the project lead for that project chooses 3 options they would like to lead next.

These choices would include

  • A new location/terrain area
  • A Revamp
  • and one other of their choice
And then they create a poll for the community to decide what they would like to do next.

I believe this will create a much more enthusiastic team of Commoners and Adventurers who would like to help progress these Projects, and would help massively with the stagnation of progress that has been happening for the last 3 years at least.

There may also be changes that need making to my suggestion to make it viable but I believe that this is a step in the right direction.
 
In the last 3 years since I joined this server, 5 projects have been completed, of those 5 projects, only 2 are new locations the other 3 being Revamps.
And of the current active projects all but one of them is a Revamp.

My Solution

I would like to propose a new system for when projects are completed, where the project lead for that project chooses 3 options they would like to lead next.

These choices would include

  • A new location/terrain area
  • A Revamp
  • and one other of their choice
And then they create a poll for the community to decide what they would like to do next.

I believe this will create a much more enthusiastic team of Commoners and Adventurers who would like to help progress these Projects, and would help massively with the stagnation of progress that has been happening for the last 3 years at least.

There may also be changes that need making to my suggestion to make it viable but I believe that this is a step in the right direction.
This seems like a very much long term change. The build team is already stretched pretty thin so we have agreed not to start any new projects till some of our current ones are finished.

My suggestion has been

Require two leads per project (a lead and a co)

Limit the number of active projects to 3-4
1 revamp, 1 new main world, and 1 other with a preference to new projects

When selecting new projects, designers should provide a list of projects they would be willing to work on, because there is nothing more soul sucking than working on a project you don’t want to work on, and let the community vote for the new project

Resource pack and terrain issues should be taken into account when selecting projects. Having said that our rp updates must be smaller. The whole “waiting on textures” has to stop. Our building progress or project selection shouldn’t be pushed by textures. Textures should be pushed by what the projects need.

This suggestion does mean we will be lacking any kind of long term plan. Just due to the nature of our participation on this server, long term, multi-year plans I do not think are doable. I think we can give a general idea of where we would like to be but if we are voting on new projects we may be bouncing around.

Something I’d like some brainstorming on, how are we going to deal with terrain issues? World machine is nice to use but we lack any one to consistently do work on that. Swe and Bart are the only two to really know how to use it to a quality we want. But having them redo the whole map for new projects isn’t fair to them if they have other things they want to work on

That’s just my thoughts atm. I’d like to see this thread to be more productive instead of finger pointing and grumbling. Staff aren’t gods, feedback and ideas are appreciated especially by me.
 
I disgree with your points and will adress them here.


Then show it. The fact that you receive this kind of feedback from a significant part of the community on server that is supposed to be a community server, should demonstrate to you that something is deeply wrong with the way how it functions or at least with how you present yourselves and communicate to the community. Telling people you want to improve but not actually do anything but saying it, makes you seem very disingenuous.


And yet you do do it. Hypr rushed the finishing of the Carrock and surrounding area, making it look half finished. Cair Andros has keeled over and died, Moria East has been gathering dust for nearly a year now, not to speak about Belfalas and Anorien for nearly two years. You continuely let new projects start while leaving others unfinished, you don't search for replacement, you don't ensure further progress, you just let it sit around. You don't lead, you don't motivae, you don't plan, you don't recruit: all this demonstrates you don't know what proper leadership entails. You let project leaders screw around and when they leave, you ignore what they have build or wipe the slate clean and not do anything with it.


Again this is a problem I have pointed out above, you discuss it but then don't anything with it. You sit around, discuss it among yourselves but communicate nothing to the community. That causes this respons, that is what causes this kind of feedback. You don't demonstrate that you have actually listened except by telling people, which is insufficient.


I am sorry, but that is not a plan. It is a goal, not a plan. Bart's list isn't a plan either, it is mild suggestion. A plan for a map this big, for a community is large should be far more detailed than that. The fact that you haven't come up with anything in 12 years, demonstrates a lack of leadership and vision. And just finishing the Fellowship path is also not a plan, it is again a goal.


Maybe you should think about what the person actually means with that sentence. They never said that they themselves felt ignored, they said that they feel the community as a whole gets ignored. That is a crucial difference. Again if you get this kind of feedback on a community server, i.e. the community feels ignored, that maybe should be a sign that you are doing something wrong. Also the point with providing an alternative, what do you mean with that? The person with that quote has given you an alternative: start listening properly to the community. And even then, that is not their responsiblity, they are not the ones who have the power and ability to change things, you are, you are the leaders of this server. Solving problems is your responsibility.


This can be solved easily, again with having a proper plan. We have a sufficient workforce, we just spread them out like mad. Select a couple (as in two, three or four) projects people can work on and the workforce isn't as spread out as it is now. Letting people do what they want and the only requirement is that they need to convince bart, is inefficient. It spreads out the workforce and makes it that only really two people are ever really active on a project, which burns those people out and limiting our workforce even more. Yes we work on a volunteer force, that doesn't mean they don't requite leadership or structure. And if people don't want to work on the active projects, they can always go and build their own things in freebuild.


I disagree, the vast majority of the server can be build up in what we have rp-wise. We have swathes of Eriador, large parts of Rhovanion, The whole of Rhun and even Harad and Umbar could be done with the blocks we have and the quality we now hold ourselves too. Other servers and other build manages it with far less blocks and texture alterations than we, yet somehow we are the only ones not building in certain areas because we don't have the blocks. Let the build team be creative, let them come up with solutions. If a builder has to sit around waiting on a certain texture, then I am sorry but they aren't worth their salt. Especially if we are supposed to uphold a certain quality: a builder that can't build with constraints, is not going to be able to deliver that good a build without constraints. It is not as difficult as you make it out to seem. And I am saying this as someone who is only a decent builder, certainly not one of the best on the server.


I disagree with this. A big part of projects not being as quick is also in part to blame because people were told to wait for better textures: do I need to remind you of Anorien that set untouched for years because we were all waiting on the mythical forest update, same with Belfalas. ''Ah don't finish it now, wait for the forest update, that will gives us better quality''. And thus the project sits there, being unfinished for an unacceptable long time, especially for a server who claims not to start new projects while there are unfinished ones.


Yes we are volunteers. That doesn't mean that volunteers can't use structure and leadership. You can't indeed force people, but as the leaders in this server you can motivatie, you can recruit, you can streamline, you can oversee and you can guide: with other words, you can lead. Take up your own responsibility, which the community obviously doesn't see you doing considering the feedback you get, before you tell others to do so. Because you fail to do so, as can be seen in a post above in which a Head Builder of a community server publicly tells a large part of thay community that they possibly can't understand what a good build is, because they don't have the right rank.


with regards,
Rudolphius
IMG_6542.gif
 
My darlings,

it deeply saddens me to hear about these thoughts and feelings at a point where they seem to have already surpassed a boiling point. I appreciate you finding the time to bring them forward and discuss them with us. I don't want to downplay any of the concerns and arguments brought up thus far as I know they are valid in their own ways. If you will allow me however, I will attempt to add some context where possible and shine a light on a few things that I've also brought up to the previous leadership, and my perspective on how to solve them. I'm sorry if this becomes too much about my personal experience. I don't really know how else to show you that there is reason behind our actions and that I do relate.

In the very beginning... there was the Big Bang... and science tells us that everyone and everything originated from it. I'm kidding ofc ... but I will have to go back at least a little. Maybe to the beginning of 2018:
I was building Erebor together with a friend on a sky block server, as you do, and managed to get my ass banned for using mods to build faster. That day, my friend showed me MCME, and my immediate reaction to seeing Moria was: I want to be part of this and I want to build Erebor on this map. So with no hesitation, I started my first themed build (RIP) for my artist application (also RIP).

Two weeks in, Finrod_Amandil, legendary Head Builder and the inventor of such things as the custom inventory, MCME custom-modeled blocks, and overall godfather of the current era of MCME, resigned seemingly out of nowhere. This left BWOT, at the time only 16 or 17, and with less than half a year of Build Leader experience, in charge. In the coming weeks, reading through the forums and talking to a few people I realized that being the only one online at times was in no way normal for MCME. From that point on it has been my only goal to expand our resources to ensure progress and continuity of the MCME project and community. Little did I know at the time that there was no singular answer to this problem.

I've brought up these same issues in communication, organization, building progress, and leadership with BWOT on countless occasions. As I got to know later, once granted access to the archives, these issues have always plagued MCME to some extent which only emboldened me to try to fix them. These are a few of the approaches different members of the community and I initiated over the years and their outcomes:
  1. Recruitment. While this has nothing to do with the internal issues in organization and communication, as a powerless commoner the most obvious issue was a lack of manpower and expertise to finish ongoing projects. Something that has been brought up here a couple of times as well. So getting our name out there was my main priority over the first few years. Founded the Media Team, started making videos, and organized collabs. The influx of new players did pick up again and we grew our social presence which put us on the radar of quite a few very talented people. This approach seems to be fruitful and could be explored again at any point in time imo.
  2. Retention. With the new player influx, the cracks in our system, the ones you are also talking about became more obvious. Lack of leadership, communication, and organization in the wake of Finrods departure had left us with a few unfinished projects that were weighing heavily on everyone's shoulders diminishing motivation. This also resulted in many of the new people not finding anything to do on MCME and leaving again. So we finished Dol Amroth and actually made a decent push in Moria. Founded new committees where people who were not interested in the building could get involved in different ways and valued community events and activities more. At the same time, BWOT standardized project planning and made a push towards better organization and communication through the forums. No one is using that for the build projects but other areas have seen benefits from it. This approach has resulted in a great development in the non-building activities but has not resolved our bottom line issues.
  3. Development. Finally, after only seeing limited success from the first 2 approaches toward fixing our primary issues, build progress and motivation, I realized that reform on the building level has to happen in order to push this project forward and satisfy our team members. I only made this graphic to illustrate to the other valar my approach to dealing with this issue 2 years ago. While I don't quite agree with it anymore I think it was a good way of illustrating the resulting conclusion of all the different approaches we had attempted at the time and what could actually make a change. It's a little confusing but it helps if you read it from left to right and imagine all the lines are arrows connecting rp dev to a flourishing community. This approach has seen some success and is still ongoing.
    1692819490334.png
I'm not going to pretend like any of the outlined approaches actually fully solved our issues, the ones you also brought up. Especially along the lines of communication and leadership. In order to not repeat ourselves I will agree mostly with bart and credoo on those points. I do want to add that while I don't blame anyone for not coming forth with their concerns, I have heard many claims of Valar or Staff not being forthcoming when approached over the years. This makes me very sad to hear as the one thing I wanted to make sure is upkept when BWOT asked me if I would take his place, was communication. That is the reason I persuaded bart to split the role with me (as he was in very close contact with the builders at the time) and that is why I've always emphasized the importance of reacting to all messages or posts made by the community for our members in leadership positions. While this may not always work flawlessly I would argue that there have always been enough valar and staff members to hit up in case your problem could not be resolved by the first one you contacted. Especially in recent years where Credoo has stepped up to take care of these exact cases specifically. I may not know which cases are being referenced exactly but I can assure you that we've never intended to ignore or ridicule anyone approaching us. Regardless of the issue or our personal view on things.

Unfortunately in my experience, as soon as someone makes it into a leadership position on MCME communication from the community starts dwindling. Not blaming anyone but myself for that. I understand the idea of leadership figures being too busy or unreachable and I am totally at fault for not acting against the formation of that image. I want to assure you, however, that in my 4 years as Valar, there has not been one Commoner, Adventure, or any other community member who has not gotten a swift and honest answer to their direct inquiries to me. So I would encourage you to get in contact if you have something you would wish to address. In my experience, these situations only evolve when there is a lack of information on the well-being of the community on our part.

After the first survey, we also put this together... no one it was discussed with was too keen on going this route, however. Maybe there is a different way? Or maybe I don't quite understand what type of communication is needed.

As for organization. Big one... I admit that I've not addressed this one enough over the years. Since BWOT more or less got mobbed away for trying to impose organization on the MCME community I've been very careful with that. We have however been making progress on that front. As you may know, I am personally in love with organization. Many of you know my spreadsheets and detailed plans for the different RPs. I'm not pointing any fingers but I know that the community as a whole has always been very reluctant to do much of that, however. Thus the emergence of the paper-pushing meme. More recently people started using the forums again but not even a year ago we had set up project threads on Discord and asked our builders to provide more frequent updates there if nowhere else. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that worked out. In my opinion, our current build leaders are probably some of the most organized we've ever had. I don't think there have ever been frequent updates to forum posts and in the times like now since I joined. I don't mean to say there is no room for improvement. We can always do better but since I don't really see how that is an issue I will assume you mean organization on a higher level. Like a roadmap. Well ... here is a roadmap I've put together in 2021:
1692822225332.png

I've spent way too much time on this post now (all time that now delays the forest update release) to be able to look for the subsequent variations and different approaches for putting something like this together we've had over the years. Believe me... we've tried. The problem with making something like this for MCME is in my opinion that most projects around here are fueled by passion. And as leaders of this community, we want to make use of that. If someone comes around and pushes a project into production we won't stand in their way as long as it's properly planned and makes sense for the server in the grand scheme of things. In the same way, if that person decides to leave again, there is no guarantee that someone else will come to pick up where they left. As it has been noted a few times here before, we really have limited power over what a community member does on MCME. Letting them follow their heart has been a good approach thus far and I would argue that it works in favor of our goal to keep it that way. So we are not opposed to a road map. We all know the rough path our server is set to take. That's pretty much what the image above outlines. I would be interested in your approaches tho. As what I showed above is barely a roadmap and obviously does not take into account the volatility of the MCME environment.

Finally, a few words on RPs. I know the forest update has been a long time coming. And I know you really want Mordor to be started. I understand the frustration with having to wait for anything like this. I wouldn't argue that our RP updates have not followed our build projects, however. Over the 3 years that the fores update has been in the making, we've had 3-4 RP updates themed around Anorien, Cair Andros, and Lithir. I've promised before and I intend to keep that promise. RP updates won't always be this big. As you may have already seen or will soon notice, the forest update is a fundamental evolution of the MCME build style. It requires a comprehensive rework of many textures and models. We will already have to replace almost all of the trees created with the prototype branch system released 2 years ago. While I didn't enjoy carrying this burden on my shoulders for so many years, I still think that releasing most of it at once has been the right decision for that reason. I know in the beginning I did tell builders to wait for the forest update. I wasn't able to foresee the developments in technology that now allow us to compete with modded communities. I hope no one is dissatisfied with that. As bart said tho, I don't think anyone in a leadership position argued for anyone to wait on any RP developments in the last 1-2 years, however. Other than the projects that are simply not possible with our current selection of blocks please never use this argument again. You may build whatever is possible for you to build. Using textures as an excuse really puts a lot of pressure on the RP team which has led to many of us burning out multiple times. All the RP dev decisions have been taken in accordance with the community thus far. I even wasted 6 months because you felt like Avallone would be a good project. If people would actually be hyped about building in Mordor I think we would have prioritized that more. It is very demotivating to hear that builders are not all too excited to work for the goal we thought we were all following.

I feel like there are quite a few parallels now, to the state MCME was in when I joined. While we've done very well on some aspects there are others that have been lacking which unfortunately also results in our current active players dip and general dissatisfaction. While I'm sure a collaboration or something more exciting for a change would also improve that I think this time around we'll have to brute force our way through it. If you do care for the future of this community, please get involved where help is needed. We hear your cry for a concrete plan, something to look forward to. We will address that to the best of our capabilities. In the meantime, there is no shortage of work to be done.

Finally, I want to say that every one of us has our own vision, expectations, and plans for MCME which is what makes our project so intriguing. I think, however, that we should all be respectful of everyone else's wishes as well. While we are all acting toward a common goal, there are 1,000 paths we can take. And the fact that each step may take multiple years due to simple bandwidth limitations, this being a pastime for all of us, is really not making this easier. But there are a few very important life lessons MCME has taught me: patience, perseverance, flexibility(openmindness), and understanding. If we all exercise at least a little bit of each I've already seen us create some of the greatest things.

Oh and mark my words. I am going to lead Erebor. Even if it takes another 5 years to get there. I call dibs or whatever people say...
 
Last edited:
In the last 3 years since I joined this server, 5 projects have been completed, of those 5 projects, only 2 are new locations the other 3 being Revamps.
And of the current active projects all but one of them is a Revamp.

My Solution

I would like to propose a new system for when projects are completed, where the project lead for that project chooses 3 options they would like to lead next.

These choices would include

  • A new location/terrain area
  • A Revamp
  • and one other of their choice
And then they create a poll for the community to decide what they would like to do next.

I believe this will create a much more enthusiastic team of Commoners and Adventurers who would like to help progress these Projects, and would help massively with the stagnation of progress that has been happening for the last 3 years at least.

There may also be changes that need making to my suggestion to make it viable but I believe that this is a step in the right direction.
A concern we have is that, if we make some changes, will the community contribute or is this a situation where people just want to explore but not help in the production. Are there any ideas on how to insure we will have community participation.
 
Back
Top