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Important About the sudden change of Head Designer, the discovered ac/mcme merge idea

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For the record none of us were aware that this thread would be moved to the public section of the forums so some of the comments were VERY #unfiltered. My comments were to express frustration to staff members and not be made public and become personal attacks. In hindsight some of my statements were personal because its how I feel and the situation is very frustrating to me, and they were not meant to be official statements for the community. In this sense I apologize for my wording.

That being said, my comments are drawn from my personal interactions with members of the Ardacraft community and the issues that have arisen as a result.
 
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So first off I want to once again apologise in front of everyone for the shit I stirred in my very early days of being part of MCME, it was well over a year ago but it nonetheless added to the tension between the two communities. This leads me to my first point.

Regarding the drama that happens with Ardacraft/MCME. Being one of the people who have caused drama I feel I have an idea of how that happens. When two communities aim to do the same thing, people generally think it's a competition, and what do you do in a competition? You try to win it, sometimes it involves chatting shit to the other, trying to show your communities' superiority without knowing or understanding to not do it. And as long as our two communities are parted, every now and then shit will happen and damage our relationship. It's like an endless cycle of shit talking and drama. It will never end.

This brings me to my next point, /rant on.
We've all been talking so much about a friendly relationship yet when it comes to enhancing that relationship we all of the sudden become stubborn and negative to the whole idea without even knowing how we both can really work together. Even after doing the shit I did to Arda, they still forgave me and treated me fairly. Why can't we all do this to each other? And it's not even like we all did what I did to each other, so really, what is the big deal? And I know not everyone likes everyone but come on, stop acting like children and sort out your differences.

Now on to a less personal and attitude topic, to an artistic and practical note.
I completely agree with @Credoo on taking this step by step, especially on such a big topic. Maybe instead of talking and discussing what would or could happen, we do something practical and experiment if or how we can work together? Imo that seems to be the most logical way. It's like a science experiment, you don't fully know what will happen until you do the task at hand. Maybe Arda can come onto MCME and work alongside us on a small revamp or anything really, or vice versa. The point is we need to trial working together before we change anything.

Let me also remind everyone, I'm not for the merge, yet I'm not against it either, But I am for the merge, if we can overcome the problems by taking it step by step and ensuring things run smoothly and all goes well, before anything changes. I'm sure you all know of all the positives of a merge, but also the negatives, so if we use practical application to overcome those negatives, then I see absolutely no reason why shouldn't do it.

Also AC members, leave your opinions on the matter!
 
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I read through most of it, thinking I may give some thoughts of my own here and there, but HOLY S**T! CALM THE F**K DOWN! ALL OF YOU!
Can't you just keep off each other's backs for a single month before something earth-shattering happens again?! I don't care if F&F are planning stuff behind our backs or if Q overreacted or who accuses who of what or who would resign when what. If you're just going to shout at each other and threaten and repeat the same arguments over and over without trying to take a step back, you're not going to solve this.

If this continues I can see both communities crash and burn within the next few months...

Sincerely
a guy who's been lurking around for almost four years
 
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Since Eaglz asked for some opinions. I've been a member of both MCME and AC for about 3 years active on each. And honestly I'll go either way. I think it's a neat idea and could work out rather interestingly. But if it doesn't end up happening then it doesn't much matter. Both servers worked fine before and can just go on as they were. All I really care about is building cool shit, but if everybody wants to build cool shit together then I guess i'm for that.
 
*sheds a tear* a true insperation to us all, thank you @Glov
 
As someone who very publicly and loudly stated that I hated the way MCME was heading 2 years ago and vowed to never come online again, I also admitted in a meeting that took place between Fornad and a few others of our community that I would be fine in accepting a merge providing that it was a complete merge. Meaning no one-side gets the short end of the stick and everything is split and merged 50/50.

My point being if I, someone who publicly and loudly stated to various members in the past (including staff) that I would never venture onto anything owned by MCME again, but I'm willing to give this a shot; I don't see how others couldn't do the same thing.
 
I was also member on MCME for about 2 years and I became active on Ardacraft because I felt that was my chance to make my mark somewhere and really do what I love and actually build. But truthfully guys, I think if we sat down and versed our opinions I think we could work out something pretty awesome. We aren't trying to "takeover" MCME, I know that's what everyone has assumed but you know a bunch of people on Ardacraft really aren't against something like a "merge", we actually all versed it would be amazing to work with our original group of people we started out with. (though I wasn't really accepted on MCME). Overall, we are all doing a great job on what we are working on and what is being completed on Ardacraft and MCME. But just because we have mods, different textures, more blocks, or even those "people we don't like". This doesn't mean something we can't work something out to be a more mutual bonding community as whole. Even if the merge isn't probable, why can't we do things to get along?

We are all trying to do something great. So why doubt we couldn't do something even greater together? Not necessarily meaning a map but just hanging out, voicing ideas, being actual friends. What do I know, I'm from Ardacraft right?

Thanks for reading guys.
 
Trying to be unbiased here:

@Fornad, for me the major offense in this agreement is that we have to give up our work of the past 3 or so years (on MCME 2.0). A similar sacrifice was made with the transition to MCME 2.0, yes, but a few key differences exist. First, that was giving up our builds (our being figurative, I wasn't a member at the time) for more of our builds. However, in this case we are giving up our builds for your builds. On top of that, ArdaCraft is, essentially, our collective enemy and is viewed as a "traitor" on here. Additionally, we are approaching 2 1/2 years spent on Gondor alone - nearly half of the entire life of the server, and as much time as was spent on all of Eriador and Rohan together on the old map. Gondor is almost finished, and to throw it away now is, undeniably, not attractive.

In short, logically, the merge makes sense, but in reality, it is unrealistic.

However, the only semblance of a solution to this issue is to throw away both our map and yours, and make an all-new map. We would both be giving up about the same amount of work - measured in years, that is. Obviously, though, this goes against all logic, and I think both communities would then oppose the merge.

I do like your builds on ArdaCraft, and I think a merge could result in great accomplishments. It seems to be agreed here that your Shire is quite good - our new Bag End shows unquestionable similarities to your style - and I would hope you feel the same way about our Gondor. However, due to the insurmountable issue of builds, I think a merge is unlikely.

P.S. A joint pvp server would be swag. I am working on a new one for MCME at the moment, and if no one is opposed to it, I'd love to make a "Middle-earth" pvp together, not specifically tied to either server. Could be some issues in that, like finances, but it's just an idea.
 
I don't want to get into arguments, but I guess it's worth making my position and points of view clear.

DSESGH said:
Trying to be unbiased here:

@Fornad, for me the major offense in this agreement is that we have to give up our work of the past 3 or so years (on MCME 2.0).
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Nobody at all has suggested that your work be completely given up and erased. What was suggested was that it could be ported, and after some time, if it was deemed necessary, enhanced.

I suppose there is some question over the ratio of time has been spent on terrain and small farms (that would be impractical/impossible to port) vs. towns and cities (which would not be) in Gondor. But how much time was spent on the original Moria, or the numerous iterations of the Shire or Bree, or on the original Fornost, Annúminas and Rivendell, or terrain on MCME 1.0? Crucially, how much time is going to be spent on terrain in the future - time that might otherwise have been saved? How much time is going to be spent on projects - on both servers - that might have been saved if we were a single team?


If you're trying to be unbiased, wouldn't it make sense to not distinguish between "ours and yours", "us and them", especially if we ended up working together? Even if you did make that distinction, far more of "your" builds would ultimately be on the map than "our" builds.

DSESGH said:
On top of that, ArdaCraft is, essentially, our collective enemy and is viewed as a "traitor" on here.
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Isn't that precisely the sort of attitude it is essential for everyone to get away from?
 
I may offer a more developed opinion on the possibility of merging later. I am somewhat against it for now, in some part due to mods, but am yet undecided fully.

For now, however, I would just like to say to @DSESGH and various others, please do not say things like this without qualifiers:
ArdaCraft is, essentially, our collective enemy and is viewed as a "traitor" on here.
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You do not speak for the entirety of MCME, and in my opinion statements like that are partly to blame for whatever such hatred does exist. I speak for myself but I'm sure that others hold the opinion as well (or I would hope, lest my image of our community be shaken) that they are not enemies. That is much too strong a word -- would you in all seriousness refer to an opposing sports team as your enemy? For I see it like the White Sox and the Cubs (baseball teams): though there is rivalry, they are both striving for the same magnificent goal. What Finrod and Fornad suggested is like saying, "Let's put aside our competition and all support Chicagoan baseball (i.e. lotr in minecraft), there's a whole nation of other teams/servers we have to compete with." I also dislike you branding them as traitors. The founder(s) of AC had legitimate reasons to want to leave our server but keep making lotr in mc; they did that in the right way of making their own server. Just because they disagreed with what we do doesn't mean they have actively tried to undermine our entire server.

I would obviously not pretend to be able to impact your views of AC or the people who play on it. I merely ask you to speak more carefully. Even simple phrases like "often" or "by some people" would suffice.
 
Alright, I would like to weigh in on this topic.

As I stated in @q220 previous thread "Regarding disrespectful and trolling behaviour towards other communities," I only recently discovered the tension between the two servers and the very existence of Ardacraft. With all due respect, a merge between the two servers does sound like a good idea in theory, but the logistics make such an idea very difficult. The best builds from both servers combined into one meta-server. However, this would erase many peoples work on this server.

As a smaller member on this server, I remember the location of every important job I have ever participated in (by important, I mean important to me). My first job ever was a small wall job with @Tyranystrasz and, at the time, Toey_, on his farm near Langdale. My first house job ever was the Anfalasvillage job with @kisos at Bairdh Gelin, and my most recent house jobs were in Tumladen, and the plot build associated with it.

The merge of the two servers would mean the loss of little locations like this, and I don't mean just my builds, but the small builds that are important to smaller members on the server. Therefore, I believe that the two servers should continue on in there separate ways, but with the upmost respect for one another.
 
DSESGH said:
On top of that, ArdaCraft is, essentially, our collective enemy and is viewed as a "traitor" on here.
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My apologies; perhaps that statement was too strong; I was really trying to say that we are certainly not best friends. I was also simply attempting to express the current views on ArdaCraft as evidence for why a merge couldn't happen now, or at least why people don't support it now. I was not intending to say there is no possibility of a merge in the future, or that such opinions are not an issue.

Fornad said:
But how much time was spent on the original Moria, or the numerous iterations of the Shire or Bree, or on the original Fornost, Annúminas and Rivendell, or terrain on MCME 1.0?
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This is what I addressed with the "ours" and "yours" thing. It is a whole lot easier to replace your own stuff with your own stuff than to replace it with someone else's stuff (specifically referencing terrain here).

Fornad said:
If you're trying to be unbiased, wouldn't it make sense to not distinguish between "ours and yours", "us and them", especially if we ended up working together?
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Being unbiased is a little different though. In attempting to express unbiased views, I am making a point independent of any arda-mcme prejudices, not pretending like the two communities have already united.
My point is true for most situations, not on MCME and AC. To use an analogy: say I have an idea for a way to solve a problem, and have spent many hours developing that idea. Then, someone comes with a better idea (to clarify, I'm not saying AC or MCME is better - this is only for the purpose of the analogy). Regardless of my relationship with this person, they could even be my best friend, I will be very reluctant to accept the new idea because of the amount of time I spent on my idea, and because it was my idea and not theirs.

Fornad said:
Even if you did make that distinction, far more of "your" builds would ultimately be on the map than "our" builds.
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But it would only be the cities. While more MCME builds might be on the map by quantity, the proportion of MCME builds on the map to total MCME builds would be much less than the proportion of AC builds on the map to total AC builds.
 
Talking about a merge seems quite idealistic in its simple approach, but once you start focusing on the little details of the thing it becomes much more complicated.

There are two aspects that people are confusing in this thread, the first one is the issue of the relationships between both communities, the second one is the practical aspect of this idea of a merge.

Briefly we could start by explaining that practically, since AC is using a heavily modded environment, HD pack, etc... whereas MCME has opted for a more minimalistic approach with the use of several resource packs. This makes the idea of a fair split quite complex.
Let's add to this the notion that each server is absolutely filled with small farms, small structures, ruins, etc... which represents countless hours of work. If it's quite clear in my head, this idea of merging the two servers means that you're in effect asking from the staff of both servers countless hours of copying, pasting, block modifications.
I am not versed enough in the whole history of Ardacraft to talk for their side, but on the side of MCME, with the countless revamps, modifications, map changes we've had over the years, is the staff really ready to make such a commitment and potentially let all this very hard work that they've done on terrain go to waste for nothing? Obviously I can't talk for everyone here, but knowing the state of mind I was in when I was told that some cities that I'd had spent hours ruining, or villages I had previously built would be wiped off the map, I think this is just a little bit too much to ask.
Additionally I feel like we have finally been able to get things rolling on a cruise mode, going forward with Gondor and following a policy of limiting the amount of revamps and this merger would go against this approach in the most extreme way. Isn't it time for us to realize that whatever we do our creation will never be absolutely perfect, but that it would be nice to go towards a completion of it?

As to the second aspect of the problem, the relationship between the two communities, I think that the people who actually matter in this subject, aka the people whose purpose when they come on any of the two servers is to build nice shit and/or enjoy a nice chat with some friends and share a passion, will agree with me on the fact that we (mostly) all come from the same place, I think we're all one big family, and sometimes families fight, it happens, but by taking things with a bit of a lighter tone, and taking a step back and remembering that we're all here to have a good time we could very quickly get rid of all this unnecessary hostility. I understand that either of the servers is probably a safe space for many of their members and as such they feel very strongly about protecting its interests, but it is a mistake to consider each of the communities as one block of like-minded individuals, we're all different people with different relationships to one another and it is improper to talk about "the people of mcme" or "the people of ac". I consider myself that I have good friends on each of the servers and I would very much like it if anyone from either side could pop on the other's teamspeak from time to time for a nice little chat without being afraid of facing some sort of hostility.

tl:dr : I like trains
 
I'll conclude with this.

I wish that this idea had been presented in a substantially different way to people. The way it came out was a disaster, I think we can all agree on that.

If you guys are truly happy with the size of the map and the terrain work ahead of you, then there's nothing I can do to change that. Perhaps a merge may happen in the distant future, once circumstances are different. But if this discussion has proved anything, it's that we need to start talking to one another again. Sharing ideas, and regular contact with certain members, is something I miss. If I've enjoyed anything over the past few days, it was talking to people like @CEFKILLA96, @Indorilian, and @lizzy_ again. I'd like to be able to pop onto MCME's TS every once in a while without feeling like I'm in a hostile environment.

Honestly, given some of the responses in this thread, I'm not sure even that is possible. It makes me sad.
 
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