Discussion will take further place in
this thread.
First off I must say that I'm utterly disappointed with how some of you put forward demands for a community that one:
- Has its goal as creating middle earth, not catering to your needs to gratify your ego.
- Is fully free, and as such, you should expect nothing in return, and not even pretend as if you have the right to make demands.
- Decisions are made within the Staff, meetings, and Valar sessions. Decisions are made there, and we stick to them. This isn't a democracy, but a benign dictatorship, just like everything else in the world. You will just have to live with it if a change happens that you don't like, and if you can't do that, you can leave. That is how things work in life.
Now a few quotes I couldn't resist commenting on:
The point still stands. The emotional plea to have commoner back, is that the community acts like a child that had a toy taken away and is crying about it. There are more ways to show dedication than a title. Those players who know that, are known. Your argument suggests that being the same rank as a new player meals you less of a player. However, I believe players who have shown their dedication will be known by their name. The logic and perspective is in the wrong place. The issue isn't whether a player is dedicated or trusted. It is about a rank that no longer servers a purpose with the current build server's permissions.
Not the entire community, but a handful of vocal firestarters. But you are right in the fact that there are more ways to show your dedication than getting commoner, a rank where you could build a landfill of abstract dirt, claim it was Minas Tirith, and get commoner anyway regardless if it even looked like it. This community is run by an amount of very talented individuals, and even if they didn't had the prefix or color or whatever cosmetic difference, they would have been known for their action, behaviour, and their past contributions.
Alright speedy. I can agree with that. Rank, like MaD said, isn't about having a reputation. If you're ACTUALLY respected, then people will know you. However I'd still like to see a minimum time limit before one can apply for artist, and this is out of caring for the server so Bounders don't constantly have to roll things back because a new Artist got on and griefed the whole place because he/she didn't care at all about it. It's like a relationship. The more time and energy you put into it, the more you will love and care about it. I could personally care less about being respected, but I would like it if the hard work of others was respected by not letting potential griefers get creative mode on the build server.
Well there is such a thing. It's called Themed Builds, and they even have to be good. And that argument is like totally invented on the spot, such thing never happened in the past. Artists are selected because of their building skill, maturity, and capability to work in a team within the predefined rulesets.
FOR GOODNESS SAKE! It's not a matter on wether or not there is a negative to having commoner. The fact is, is that the rank servers no purpose other than padding the egos of players who did the minimum to attain it. The rank is obsolete due to the permissions of the build server. Thrall and commoners can only build when they join a job, therefore, there is little to no distinction between them.
As with everything else, things evolve, and so did this rank. It became bloated and became an inhomogeneous collection of past decision "errors" (different people who revised the commoner rank, each time higher or lesser requirements, inevitably ). When Artist was introduced, that became the "trusted" rank that were (proven) reliable, competent people, and not commoner.
The problem of your view, and many others views, is that you are only looking at the change from a mechanical side of the server, and not looking at the organic side. From a mechanical side, is it a good change? Yes. There is fewer ranks, which means less work for Q. But from an organic view, you have a VAST majority of players ( just look at
@bobow95 's poll) who disagree with this change, and view it as an insult (not my personal view). Commoner used to be about being loyal to the server, and you were trusted to build bigger things. But the way commoner applications changed over the years, this is no longer the case. It went from being a well known member of the community to, well, a commoner once artist was implemented. It was only a redundant rank because it was MADE redundant by having no changes to its privileges and how it was given, while almost every other rank has changed in one way or another. At this point, it's not about whether adventurer is a good thing or a bad thing. The argument I make is that this was released without any input from 95% of the server population, and was not thought through well enough. In the end, even though Q owns everything, and cannot be told no, that does not mean every decision will be right or for the best, but we have to live with it anyway, so there's no point complaining.
Mechanical can be made and defined, but the organic 'social system' you talk of, is grown and defined by players and social interaction, it cannot be defined, only steered towards a direction. About the 95% part: this community is not a democracy, and I'm not a impulsive power-crazy tyrant who doesn't consult people. Truth is, and that also applies to life, is that you just can't do good for everyone at the same time. This change was postponed numerous times, even though there was a consensus that something had to change during various Staff meetings.
Setting personal feelings aside, my argument is purely objective. I have stated my opinion many times. I think that the rank was good for only one reason, communication between new players and established ones. The fact remains that in the objective, subjective look at the changes, the lack of understanding has instead placed in crying like children. I've voiced both my support and distaste for the change. I qualified the position with an understanding for the position for and against.
However, with everything I've said, what is not acceptable is the sense of entitlement in the community. Everyone has a complaint, we all understand that, but the emotional appeals but the community do not have two legs to stand on. And while the illusion of the server being a democracy is there, it is not. And yes, the proper way to vent those concerns is the forums, but to assume that the community is correct in it's own end is a falsified claim. My argument was never from the side that I'm a three+ year member of this server, my argument is founded in the mechanics for what is best for the server side. The Social dynamics of commoner are needed, but its not acceptable for players to insist that they are somehow better because they have a different tag. You've all said "i don't think I'm prestigious," but your responses suggest otherwise. I'm not here to call any players out, but as a community a different approach should have been made. Many, many players have taken to the forums tout their sense of entitlement to the ranks. You are entitled to nothing. Some veteran players and well known players are upset yes, but they are known by name, not rank. Their work is known by their ranks, but not their reputation.
That exact sense of entitlement, and the 'Social ladder' that gave people the perception of "Person X is better than Y
because of the prefix and color", is exactly what made the decision to
rename commoner to adventurer, and buff the oathbreakers easier. There was/is going to be a new rank, thanks to this thread I'm now less sure of that, which would have been 'the next Commoner rank' which would have been much harder to obtain.
I could also just have worked in the reverse order, instead of grandfathering commoner 'rights and benefits', I could have removed them, created a new rank, and call it 'the new Commoner' (along with its new requirements). But I didn't. So basically nothing changed for the Commoners, and Thralls gained flight.
What I hear here in this thread is not really what was "lost" or "gained" when it comes to functionality. But what was "lost" due to prestige, and your personal feeling of being unique and recognized. Keep in mind that ranks are not for your ego, but they are there to contribute to the server's goal: building a world.
This thread will be locked, discussion can take continue at
this thread.